Maori affairs Q&A: Parekura Horomia

Parekura Horomia wants to see Maori owning their own businesses. Picture / Alan Gibson

Maori Affairs reporter Jon Stokes talked to Maori Affairs Minister Parekura Horomia about the vital issues for Maori. This is an edited transcript:

If Labour gets back into Government what is the key focus for you?

To build on the strong platform that we've developed. Simple stuff - a better educated Maori workforce around skills that match with the opportunities available.

What's your single biggest achievement in Government?

Having a very low unemployment rate and participation by Maori in a whole lot of different areas that they weren't in before we came into Government. The other thing is accelerating the educational opportunities for a lot of our Maori people in different forums.

What area has not achieved what you had hoped?

Some of the issues in relation to delivery by government agencies and how we can do better and we're working on that. I think that within a year to two years it will become a hang of a lot better.

If you were ousted at the next election what would the one thing be that would weigh most heavily on your mind that you weren't able to achieve?

Getting more people off the benefit into work. I think you can do a lot more with that.

Maori continue to fail disproportionately in numerous statistics, including education and employment. What will you do to change that?

No different to what we've done. The simple fact is that 94 per cent of all Maori are in work at the moment, and if you go back six years that's not [the situation then].

Maori educational achievement still lags behind non-Maori. Why, and what are you doing about it ?

There are a whole lot of things. We've got to change people. You know how our grandparents perceived education but right now I believe that a lot of the people in Maori immersion at the ages of 12 to 13 have the equivalent skills and standards as those who are sitting a university paper. What I'd like to see is that those people come out and go into the different sciences, so in a changing society like ours indigenous people who have come from working-class parentage get to to understand the worth and value of education and what it really means. We're improving through Working for Families the early childhood care stuff. Remember a lot of our people - nearly 80 per cent more than non-Maori - are re-entering education or going into certain levels for the first time. . So you've got to make sure that you can assist them to get into the relevant education that improves their income, that creates a better lot for their people,

For the first time Labour has set a deadline for Treaty settlements, 2020. Why has there been a change in policy in terms of putting a mark in the sand?

We have learned a lot on the journey on how we can do this quicker, better and fairer. What we did say when we got into Government the last time is that we would push and encourage the direct negotiation. This is building on that.

But at the end of the day some Maori want to have the say in the tribunal and the court just to express reconciliation. What we are learning is that a lot of people are learning a lot about themselves as they go through this process.

What's your vision for Maori in, say, 2020?

I want to see Maori owning and managing their own businesses, having the capability to determine what choices they can make for their children, and certainly a better income, better life, and getting to that space that's out there at the moment with globalisation, digitalisation. Our young people in 2020 are going to be different to us. I want to prepare them well so they don't lose opportunities.

I want to see well-educated Maori people. I want to see them living in mainstream and managing mainstream and taking all the benefits that Pakeha and other people get, but most of all I want them to be determined in running their own business, their own affairs, and making sure that they're getting the best quality education, the best opportunities, in a globalised economy.

How would you rate Pakeha-Maori relations at the moment?

If you remove both the extreme ends of those who excel in blaming each other or the redneckness and also the Maori extremists who want to trap and blame everybody and keep us in dependency mode, I think it is a hang of a lot better than people try to exaggerate or the press express.

The relationships and the strains will always be there, but that's about misunderstanding. If you have a look at our Treaty website, it's incredible. It's had one of the biggest hits, and that's about a lot of people learning.

Does it frustrate you that you've done some good things for Maori and your people are critical of the Government because of it?

You know I've been in this game for 32 years. Parliament has only been another bus stop. People who have worked with me, and a lot of the key Maori leaders in this country right now, have worked with me for long periods and a lot of the Pakeha actually. It is always frustrating in this game, but that's politics and that's about being a Maori leader.

You've got to make that decision and you've got to make sure about where you're trying to take it strategically. Strategically I believe that most Maori parents and their kids want to have the equivalent or better than non-Maori kids and parents.

The foreshore and seabed was probably one of the most defining issues last year. Was it the right decision?

It was the right decision.

The concern within Maoridom that their opportunities to have their day in court was circumvented. Do you think that concern is valid?

In one part it was, but there were possibilities of people arguing freehold title. Let's be exact about what was said. Freehold title, no matter what culture you're from is about purchasing something and selling it.

Maori never ever owned the only one tangaroa. They never bought it and they've got no right to sell it. We've got Maori selling tukuwhenua now, inherited land from their grandparents now, and you remember that 99 per cent of the Maori land that's intact, is within the regulated framework. Sir Apirana Ngata put it in there because it was getting lost. Government has a role to govern.

If we said we'd run it, leave it as it is because we're the tangata whenua and we'll drive where we want, that's dangerous. You know the depletion in the kai, the seafood, has gone down 60 per cent in recent times. So when people talk about leave it as it is, there are different times now.

The thing is that we want to protect and recognise Maori customary right and kaitiakitanga.

Should the Maori seats continue?

I'm a very strong advocate, not because I'm in a Maori seat, of maintaining that. In the sense of expressing true partnership, what's the fear of having them? When they were brought in and agreed to it was about fair and better equitable representation. I hope that they stay.

Has your focus moved strongly to economic development?

It is about making better use of our assets. Maori are actually quite asset rich and debt free, but that's an education thing. It's about better educating them and skilling them.

You want to review the role of the Crown Forest Rental Trust, Maori Trust Office, Potama Trust. What are you aiming at?

They have a lot of money tied up. Now a lot of it is specifically used through legislation, but certainly there is no harm in looking at those Maori funds that are specifically earned and generated by Maori that they could be better used to help our people.

So I think that it's time that we used some to directly help so we can dictate what we want to do with it and grow Maori, economically and socially..