"You really think Holden Caulfield is a hero? That's interesting," Scarlett Johansson is arguing with Chris Evans over whether Marvel Comics' Sentinel of Liberty really does have anything in common with US literature's most famous disaffected teenager. But having now played Steve Rogers, first in 2011's Captain America: The First Avenger and now high-octane sequel The Winter Soldier in addition to 2012's Avengers extravaganza, the Boston-born actor is convinced that the patriotic crime-fighter and the youthful protagonist of J.D. Salinger's 1951 novel both fulfil a deep intrinsic need.
"We've always needed heroes and we always will," Evans says. "That's why we have Greek mythology. Since the beginning of time, people have told stories and looked up to heroes, whether they're superheroes or Catcher in the Rye. They're all heroes."
However, Johansson, who reprises her role as the deadly Black Widow, is not so sure. "I'll have to think about that for a while," says the New York-born 29-year-old, who admits to enjoying some superhero blockbusters while growing up in the late 80s. "I liked the Batman movies that Tim Burton did and I loved Indiana Jones. I guess I loved the flawed heroes but then everyone does. It's just like Holden Caulfield - okay, I'll take that!
"But the superhero is a little bit more - I don't want to say damaged - but there's just a part of that character that we can all relate to. That's what makes those stories work when you watch this fantastic film, read a book or a comic, you can imagine this fantastic experience and it's then brought back down to earth so you can relate that to yourself. That's what makes the perfect superhero but do we need that?