KEY POINTS:
Auckland businesses are worried about their ability to find good staff but some readers say they have returned from overseas and finding it hard to get a job.
The Auckland Chamber of Commerce says around 368 businesses out of more than 800 it surveyed are struggling to get the right staff on board. That's up eight per cent in the past three months.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Stephen Harrison
Having moved permanently to Wellington in November 2006 with my partner an IT Professional she was able to find work within days. But as of this date l have had one interview l have applied for over 500 jobs sales roles admin and basic labouring far below my skill set but have received nothing but negative attitudes unless the job is on the shortage list go back to the UK was one response l received...But l will keep trying as l love this country and it is my home….
FB
I read with interest the experiences of many who have wrote in, on their disappointment in finding jobs here in NZ. To be frank, a lot of the comments show a fundamental understanding of basic economics.The phrase "tight labour market" is thrown around a lot but now we see more use of the phrase "skill shortage". The actual situation of the NZ labour market is more to do with the latter, but not so much as literally described. We are experiencing more of a "skill mismatch". As a nation, we output a high number of finance, engineering and marketing graduates per year. Take one look at the current undergraduates and their selected majors and you'll quickly realise why if you're in any one of those professions, you have a lot of competition!
In my work, I am in touch with senior executives and managers across a range of different sectors and industries.
From my experience, skill shortages exist with telecommunications/ICT specialists ("IT" is a big word. Employers are looking for specific IT skills), Human Resources and Senior/executive management. This is where the labour highway bottlenecks into a trunk road. At the top, NZ's pay conditions and career opportunities just aren't as attractive as overseas prospects. How many of our high profile CEOs, CFOs and CIOs have moved offshore? This is obviously not an exhaustive list. Nz is also hitting a slowdown period. We had a boom, yes, but which sectors? It's not a secret that our export and tourism sector suffered for a period of time under the high Kiwi dollar. Our housing sector boomed and jobs in this sector are easy to come by. Contrary to conventional wisdom, a booming economy isn't always necessarily felt and shared equally amongst all sectors and industries. There are winners and losers.
Ben
Try being over 50 and find a meaningful job! You apply through the "human resources" muppets who require the qualifications of a rocket scientist and the experience of a 'madam' before they recommend you for the position of a 'ball-boy'. Once you've run the gauntlet on that scene a few times you get the message that you are absolutely just making up the numbers and theyre just following you up superficially so they can tick the 'senior' box. That leaves the 'unskilled' market. I've had several 'jobs' in this area and have been paid the rate equivalent to the employers attitude to the people performing these tasks.....peanuts. The message is 'be glad you've got somewhere to go each day..dont tell me you expect financial rewards as well'. You're not getting rich off me was one employers response to my attempts to reason with him. Most of the employers I have come across are akin to dinosaurs, and they are only interested in their 'bottom' lines. I dont believe that there is a genuine desire by the majority of employers to hire mature workers regardless of their experience. Skills shortage....blah!
Mark
Wow!!I am totally amazed and thankful that I am not the only one. I was beginning to think it was just me. The idea about skilled worker shortages in NZ is complete rubbish. What it boils down to is a shortage of skilled workers that are willing to work for a low salary. I have lived here for nearly 7 years now and have constantly struggled to find a job. If it's not incompetent managers scared by your experience its personnel staff dismissing your application because of your "Market Rate" salary expectations are too high. When I have gone overseas in search of work, I am snapped up within a matter of weeks!!! Go figure NZ!!! As for employment agencies here, complete joke!!! I have been to the same employment agencies a number of different times, interviewed by a number of different people there, still with no success. Why do they insist on wasting my time if there really wasn't a job vacancy in the first place!!! Hmm, probably just filling their quota for the month!!!
Phyllis
I am an immigrant and I do not find it hard to find work here. However, I do have many friends who cannot find work in their own field despite graduating from NZ universities. I am talking about doctors, radiologists, dentists etc. Yet, we hear about shortages of these skills all the time. From my experience, companies have a very small budget for hiring skilled people. For every company that I worked for, they are short-staffed and everyone works overtime for free. It is these people who are willing to accept low wages and work for love that gets the job. People asking for more realistic salary will not get the job because the company simply will not pay that amount even though the person matches the job. They will pay the wrong person that matches their budget but not skilled enough to do the job properly.
To sum it up, there is one reason why I managed to find work. It's not because I am more skilled or more intelligent. The mere reason I get hired is I ask for a salary that is below what I should get. On the other hand, others who asked for "market salary" went to Australia!
Amazed – Auckland
Sooo many good points being raised but are any employers taking note??? If they would open their eyes and not be so short sighted, I think they will be pleasantly surprised by the number of skilled and incredibly willing people who wants to prove what they can do. But why do they continue to complain about staff shortages?
1. Inability to see staff as their most valuable asset.
2. Not enough employers are willing to give people from overseas a chance because of "lack of NZ experience" (are they aware we are quite behind in lots of things?).
3. Crap pay for skilled people.
4. Time served seem to be far more important than real capabilities and achievements.
5. In general, just close mindedness & preference of the "safer" option! I personally never had issues getting jobs thanks to starting in a big corporate & lots of hard work. However a close friend who has spent over 10 years of her life overseas doing some pretty amazing things is unable to even land a job. She speaks English fine and in my opinion far more capable than most of the people I have met in my corporate roles yet everytime, she gets told "we are looking for more direct & specifc NZ experience". So I have just one question, Where do you propose to find these people with lots of NZ experience when they are moving overseas for better pay and more opportunities?? Stop penalising all these talented people for simply not having spent all their working life in NZ!! You might find they have lots of new ideas to contribute from their experiences than that "safe" locally experienced person you hire.
Chris
Since moving to NZ from the US two years ago, I have been very disappointed in the employment market here. I was lucky enough to move here with a job but finding another job after getting some required "NZ experience" has been frustrating. I have advanced degrees from excellent universities yet I can not even get interviews for roles I have very direct experience and qualifications in. To echo some of the points already raised, recruiters really are worthless and I am shocked managers do not take a more direct role with hiring (I never used recruiters in the US because who better knows my needs than me?). I have been disappointed by the quality of many of the mangers I have met here there is a lot of promotion by time served rather than ability and it shows! I get the sense that many organisations have never really seen what a motivated group of people can do and it shows in the organisations I have been around. Managers tend to manage by taking the safest route even if that means delivering something they know will be a waste of time because that is the safest option for them. I love living in NZ and the people we have met here but the real crisis is not a shortage is staff but a shortage of good managers.
Mario
I do not believe there is a shortage of good potential employees in the labour market. However there is a lack of suitable and good quality jobs/position. The real facts are the most of the middle management and professional jobs have been taken over with the change to foreign ownership of the larger and more substantial industries in NZ. Such roles are largely handled by the foreign corporation at their HQs. As far the recruitment agencies is concerned, there way too many agencies , I was told that in the Auckland region there are over 400 recruitment business competing for very few contracts and placements jobs available. That makes this industry to be the same like the real estate and car sales industries. Yes they do have knowledge of the roles available but at the same time they strangle the free market between a willing employee and a willing employer. The employee ends up being just another commodity. I strongly advise to avoid agencies as much as possible. They are working first for them, second for the employer and third for you.
ChrisB
I feel very sad about NZ. It used to be a great place but its not very good for families anymore. Single income families are completely non-viable unless that one single income is way above the average wage. So Mum and Dad have to work their guts out if they want to get ahead. If you are a single income family like mine is, then you struggle to pay the bills and put three meals a day on the table. Saving is virtually impossible, and as for saving for your retirement, forget about it. And thats not the worst of it - the thing that is worse is you look at the future and see nothing but more of the same so you lose hope.
Anon
I moved to NZ just over 6 years ago & I have found no problem whatsoever in finding employment. In fact I have been offered opportunities & experiences that would not have been available to me in the UK. I have found employers willing to give me chance based on my overseas experience & interviews. I now have a successful & promising career in an industry that I love. Furthermore, before moving to NZ, I fully looked in to what would be required as a new immigrant in order to be aware of what to expect. This was invaluable & the common sense approach of anyone moving to a new country. I am thankful for the opportunities that have been offered to me & that I get to live in, what I consider, an amazing place. Wages may be lower but over all the lifestyle & the people are wonderful and my standard of living is much improved.
Josh
I have been in New Zealand for past three years I had three years experience in mechanical engineering before coming to NZ, but I had to accept job on lower wages because I had no NZ experience. That was fine but the thing that really lowers my motivation is partiality. There are four people in my department two of them are managers and two of us are on same position but there is huge difference of salaries between my colleague and me. Our job profile is same, the kind of job we do is same, and quality of work I do is also similar but I get less salary just because I am from an ethnic background (may be, I am not sure but cant see any other reason). I talked to my manager about at least increasing my wages to average median (which I got from asking various friends in the same sort of job and a salary website). My manager who seemed happy before putting this request, came up with many flaws in my work which is unfair and unreasonable. Now what ever I do he tries to pick mistakes just to justify his remarks.I dont want to leave the job as I dont want to change jobs so often but this kind of attitude obviously lowers once motivation.
Felix
I am a recent graduate (foreign student) who has been seeking full time salary job for a few months by now. I certainly was overconfident that I could find a job here in Auckland within 2 to 3 months. However, to my disappointment, it is such a huge headache seeing the employment market being so inefficient. There is really a shortage in graduate employment opportunities. Why? As many other have said, employers are not prepared to invest in their future employees as they are confined by the misconception that people with little experience will certainly do better than those who do not. Also, many employers are really taking their time to respond to job applications and interview results, which has wasted a lot of our time.
Randall
It all comes down to pay I guess. I always understood that a high cost society, Switzerland, Japan etc, was in part (mainly?) due to high wage. Are the two not linked? Certainly not in NZ. High cost and low wage: can someone tell me who is taking all the money which equates to the difference between these two? And do not tell me it is the taxman.
Goby
NZ needs another $5 added per hour to every wage packet, talk about crap money being dished out. Great country but with no direction, needs a good spanking......... oh no cant even do that now.
Neon Camel
I want to know who are these companies are that are in strife? What industries are in need of help and employment because I have sent 19 letters to (guess ?) 8 different agencies and after much "ohhhing and ahhhing" - countless meetings to admire my suit, my tie - discussing how the Blues are going; nothing. And yet I am a seasoned professional that has owned his own media company, designed national ad campaigns through every media outlet except putting neon signs on the backs of camels! Recruitment agencies will be the death of this economy. May I suggest to all reading that we need to take the time out and apply to private companies advertising as much as possible. my email is spindoctor007@hotmail.com if any media companies would like a cv.
Sarah
I am so surprised by the immigration rules. I have staff members who are doing a wonderful job for me and when they try to get an extension it is so difficult. One employee who I hold in the highest regard is having a tough time with his PR and I desperately want him to continue .He has worked for me for 2 years already. It seems that he can only get PR if he is highly paid. I am short of the staff at the lower end of the pay scale .I have lots of chiefs but need workers. Obviously I will try to increase his wages but I am in line with the industry and its competitive nature already. My employee is satisfied at the moment and knows that over a period of time he will be rewarded.
I need several more people and cannot find them. I have people from overseas but their applications are not going anywhere as they again are not considered skilled or highly paid enough. They should check out what people kiwis get paid. If we paid more ,we still need people due to work load but will struggle as cannot afford more people. If we get more workers to boost productivity we could then pay more.
Colin England
Serves them right for paying pathetic wages. Our economy would pick up quite a fair bit if they paid enough to keep the qualified people here and put in enough effort to train up those who are here. Another thing I have noticed when going for a job interview is that, even for part time jobs, the employer will ask what attracted you to the company. Answering with "your paying money for a person with X skills and I have X skills and want money" will ensure you do not get a job. Showing an understanding of free-market economics will have them running for cover as they seem to be absolutely terrified of a free labour market.
Roy
NZ employers still have a "Rogernomics" mindset where a salary is considered a cost to the employer rather than an investment in the future of their business. It is a very unhelpful mindset that employers need to change if they are serious about developing long-term sustainable growth for their business. Employers who understand this fundamental difference generally have little trouble attracting and maintaining suitable employees. Those that do not, deserve to struggle.
Andrew Atkin
The heart of the reason why New Zealand employers have problems getting (or creating) good staff, is because they usually have a paternalistic attitude towards their "underlings". Paternalism is degrading and saps enthusiasm and energy out of your workers. It ends up becoming its own justification, because it pushes staff into an oppressive psychological position where they need be constantly told what to do. They may also end up needing to be monitored because they no longer respect their employer (real respect - not fear).
Heather Gray
There seem to be plenty of jobs out there, but getting through agencies is the biggest problem. I moved back from Australia over 2 years ago, took the first job available at the time, but know I am trying to get work and seem to get held back with agencies. I spent 17 years with the one company in Australia and have experience. But have been given appointments for jobs with high turn over of staff. As the jobs are not challenging enough. Personally the agencies are the one who are at fault.
Syed
I would suggest that Kiwi employers start thinking outside the box and recognise foreign qualifications and experience especially in the technical area. The government can also play a role here. After carefully assessing my qualifications including the syllabus, the NZQA recognised my engineering degree as equivalent to a NZ one..but only for immigration purposes...a statement that would hardly prove encouraging for an employer. I came here 5 years back and am now a Kiwi. I was an Instrumentation engineer overseas with a decade and a half of experience and an FIE - Fellow of the Institute of Engineers. I joined IPENZ but was only given a GIPENZ membership, something that you get just after passing out. I let my IPENZ membership lapse as it did not seem worthwhile to pay $350 a year for that. Recently IPENZ was conducting a membership drive and got in touch with me.I was told that even to get a TIPENZ membership, you have to have 2 IPENZ members that have worked with you for 2 years vouch for you. I worked for a year in a service station before getting a job in local government, during that time I must have sent at least 150 applications only to be told no NZ experience, no suitable experience due to the high calibre of applicants, more suitable applicants. One agency even used the words culture problem. Even with 5 years local experience although admittedly not as an engineer I find it difficult to get back into my field. A number of my friends have crossed the ditch to OZ and their example is tempting. Business NZ should instead of moaning about the shortage of skilled people get off its butt, take off its glasses and start looking around.
John
To quote a recruiter, looking for IT gurus,"unfortunately they arent looking to pay industry standard wages." I think that sums it all up. Many New Zealand companies treat staff like its a privilege to have a job at all. They wont recognise efforts, or pay overtime in a number of cases, yet they will expect the staff to over-perform and excel and lose time with their families. Yet whenever it comes to pay rounds, the company is always tight, or short, or re-adjusting, and lo - and behold, if you are lucky enough to get a wage rise of the same amount as the cost of living increase, you are supposed to feel appreciative.
Watto
I left for the USA on a short-term assignment just over a year ago. After being offered a 100 per cent pay rise to stay here - compared to my previous NZ salary I have no intention of coming back. While we have 1 in 4 New Zealanders on some sort of welfare handout, many of whom are totally unproductive, it is no wonder our corporate and individual taxes are so high. If we got a few thousand people off benefits and saved the country a couple of billion dollars, there would be enough for tax cuts, investment in infrastructure and R & D which leads to job creation and pay increases for everyone.
Robert
As a qualified professional, I have had no problem moving to the UK and finding work earning twice as much as I earned back home and being able to travel to so many countries for only a few dollars, but I do not want to stay here for ever. Everyone complains about New Zealand employers, but they are no different to anywhere else. Once bitten twice shy as they say. I would like to point out living and working in one of the wealthiest countries in the world is that if you live in NZ and complain about tax, bureaucracy, Government Interference or quality of life, then you have no idea. Europe has all this at every level and then some. Try looking for work in Germany for example. You might be lucky enough to speak good German or find a job in an Irish pub but typically the only work you can find is a hotel cleaner or work in dodgy call centers. You don't know how lucky you are,mate.
Nigel Wade
Despite the opinion of some, it is all about the money. Less money means less comfort (literally) so dont let anyone convince you to take a job for the love and minimum wage. Salaries, there are good salaries out there for those that have the right experience, in the right field and know the market well. The tax bracket is low, and it is the main reason people dont/cant save, or easily get a home, thats what holds the economy growth back (a semi-good thing). Salaries in advertised roles have taken a downwards turn, minimum wage is common in retail work (dont take it!), and a lot of companies want to pay less and get more now days, employers arent realistic. Another month on the dole job hunting is worth it, for an extra 2k - 5k a year, it is also easier to get a job if you have one.
Migrants, the jobs arent there for you, because you speak English with an accent, your skills are unverifiable, some choose ethic dress in some way or form, and dont exclude plain old stereo typing as well. It is tough. I have done it myself in Finland, but I studied, found work, and lived there for two years never learning a word of Finnish. If I can do it there, you can do it here. I made careful plans (realistic ones), got lucky, had a can do attitude, and most of all, I gave it 100 per cent effort. It was my job to find a job, I guess I just wanted it work out badly, so it did.
Recruitment Consultants get paid for putting people in roles. If they dont think you will be perfect for the role they wont put you forward. That means that if the opinion of the person interviewing is flawed, you are out of luck. I avoid this method of applying for jobs because I have found the ratio of success is low, and that it wastes a lot of my time & effort doing that. And I dont like the meaningless tests or answering cryptic idiotic questions. Apply directly to a company after you have identified they do they kind of work you want. If they refer you to somewhere, apply within 48 hours, mention the contact at the firm.
I reviewed 85 C.Vs for a sales role this Sunday afternoon. , I found grammar mistakes, ugly photos, and terrible layouts my biggest turn offs. Those ones were mailed back. Be realistic about yourself. Do not lie, the tricks are all old now. Be proud to be who you are, and the job is much more likely to be yours. Older people shouldnt try and hide their age, or gloss over age, or address it (worse), Just lay yourself out there and if you are wanted, you will get picked. I was left with 3 people in the end.
Millie Hawke
NZ continues to reap what it sowed with the Employment Contracts Act(ECA). Repealing the Act was a vital first step, but the process of undoing the damage of its legacy means getting a bit conscious about the effects it has caused and continuing to address them head on.
That Act, and the overly zealous infatuation with economic rationalisation in NZ generally in the early 90s, introduced an industrial relations climate in which poor managers flourished - who needs to be innovative or progressive or even very good when you can increase profits simply by skimming wages from those on the bottom?
Why anyone should now expect those at the bottom or in the middle from whom wages and conditions were skimmed (the majority of whom are now completely shut out of the housing market) to somehow be motivated, happily productive staff is quite beyond me (I am still reeling at the notion that staff back there are paid as low as $12 an hour). Australia maintained a collectivised wage system while NZ dismantled theirs and moved onto individual contracts. While the 2 countries had similar productivity rates for a decade and a half prior to the ECA, since the ECA NZ productivity, along with the wages of all but a very few, has decreased markedly while Australia has flourished. Immigration is not going to be able to solve NZs staff shortage problems, skilled workers are in demand in every country and there is simply not enough to meet the demand (and other countries have more to offer than NZ anyway). Staff shortages are eventually going to force wages up and require employers to offer inducements and to re-institute the sorts of in-house training programmes and responsible management techniques that were common a couple of decades ago. The smart thing would be to move on all of this quickly or NZ risks continuing to lose its population to the very much better conditions overseas. And yet everytime a modest proposal to increase wages is put forward, the newspapers are filled with bleating from employers groups saying they can not afford it. NZ has to decide whether it can afford to allow business groups to keep behaving like thugs and driving it into the ground.
Meredith H
If business people are finding it hard to get good staff, consider this; I am 39, a customer service/call centre person, looking to return to the workforce, experienced, hardworking, keen - and unemployed! I have applied for numerous positions, but have been knocked back repeatedly by "employment agencies" as I don't give the "correct" answers in the pre-employment psychological testing. Common sense and a sense of humor apparently are not helpful! After nearly four years looking, I have all but given up hope of finding an employer who actually can be bothered screening their own potential staff. I ring call centres here - only to be greeted by people who can barely speak English, it is truly disheartening.
JC
Staff shortage? I think "Salary shortage" is more accurate. There are dozens of kiwi expats over here that would consider returning home if employers got realistic and started to compete with the rest of the world. And one other wild though, you only get skill shortages if you dont invest in your staff. Employers, stop whinging and start doing something about it!
MS
As a senior finance manager who was reluctantly forced to leave NZ last year due to the complete lack of senior financial management roles I find the skill shortage very specific to lower and middle level positions. The top level finance roles will continue to disappear as NZ becomes a sales and marketing branch of Australia for multinationals, and listed companies are bought and delisted. I am lucky and can escape to the UK for a career but those who have to stay will be locked into existing jobs and the salaries will become more uncompetitive vs overseas as people are desperate to work. This will continue to drive good talent out of NZ. I also whole heartily agree with the other reader on the non posting of salaries by recruitment companies as a complete time waster on everyones part. The UK market is far more efficient and transparent as salaries are disclosed.
Stephen
I have many friends that are trying to get work in all types of fields (they are all recent graduates). I hear of the same problem from every one of them, and I have seen it for myself. Nobody wants to hire unless you have experience - "must have at least x years of experience". There is no shortage of people with the qualifications in NZ, just a shortage of employers who are willing to give these qualified people some starting experience in their field. When you look around for months, and every job requires years of experience, graduates start to flood out of the International terminals and look somewhere else... and when they get that experience overseas, a lot tend to realise that it may not even be worth returning to NZ for one of those under-payed "experience needed" jobs.
C Hoods
I have followed the job market with interest over the last 5 years. Local governments, central government and business spending huge on traveling overseas on recruitment drives.
Has anyone ever done a cost benefit analysis of the transient state of New Zealand Labour force and the real cost of the continued restructuring and redundancy to New Zealand in dollar terms? What are the benefits to the New Zealand economy? How many people get "restructured" out of their jobs? What happens to these people? Would retraining help staff shortages and ensure "regional prosperity", one of the aims of government? What happens to our well qualified scientists and other professionals who has contributed greatly to the NZ economy in terms of IP, commitment to the economy, productivity, increased revenue, etc.
What is the cost/benefit analysis of retraining the thousands of people made "redundant" every year compared to the $$ spent on overseas recruitment? Included could be the length of stay of new recruits - e.g. police force. Like all the other readers that commented, I need to be convinced. There are too many who need to leave the regional areas to cities and other countries further afield - with a resultant huge drain on human resources and intellectual capital. I need to see the real gains of continuous restructuring in NZ. A published document in this area, I believe, is long overdue.
James Cowen
As a police officer in New Zealand, my take home pay was about half what I am now receiving in Western Australia for unskilled jobs as my fiancee (a nurse) and I travel the outback. As a nurse here my fiancee can earn up to twice what both of us were earning in a week back home in New Zealand as civil servants. The question now is why, not when, we will come back to New Zealand.
Another South African
Same complaint as the previous ones. When we came to NZ, we were told we are Skills category, getting here all changed – we have had to start from the bottom again, for what reason - no Kiwi experience! I am totally confused about the Kiwi experience - IT is IT, bottom-line ... period. If you dont want our skills and expertise here, say so - no wonder so many real Kiwis leave for the UK and Australia, employers dont seem to care, as us migrants are too glad to do anything to get Kiwi expertise.
John McKenzie
NZ might be a nice place to live, but there are a plenty of other nice places as well, a lot of them have less rain and better economies. NZ is a small business economy that doesnt offer much excitement for the ambitious professional, especially if they are seeking to work in large corporations - there isnt that many! Its harder to do well in NZ than it is in AUS, US, UK etc, who needs "hard." NZ is in the unique situation where it has no real underlying wealth so must do some extraordinary things to rectify the situation. For example, offer tax breaks to large corporations to set up admin or manufacturing here. Stop the small business tinkering and do something that kicks starts the economy. Unfortunately doing what I suggest (extra-ordinary economic measures) is politically dangerous for the party/politicians so dont hold your breaths. For example, it takes a brave politician to offer say 10 per cent corporate annual tax rate for Micro
