Life's work: An interview with Marie Kondo

Japanese organisational expert Marie Kondo. Photo / AP

As a student in Japan, Marie Kondo tidied her friends' apartments. When she started work as a staffing agency sales associate, she organised her clients' desks. She developed a motto — "Keep only what sparks joy" — and turned it into a successful business, KonMari (which has since certified more than 400 consultants in 43 countries), along with best-selling books. Her latest, Joy at Work, tackles organisation at the office.

Q: When did you realise that your passion for tidying could become a career?

A: When I was 19, I often tidied my friends' homes when I visited them. Very quickly word spread that when Marie comes over, things get very well organised. People I didn't even know started reaching out and offering to pay for my services. When I started working for a staffing agency and visited the small and mid-size companies I worked with, the same thing happened. I found myself straightening up desks and workspaces. The top executives would often comment on it and then hire me to tidy or introduce me to people who would become clients. I did this work early in the mornings or on the weekends as a side business. And at one point I realized that outside my full-time-job hours, every cell of my calendar was filled with appointments to organise people's homes or offices. I saw a real need and a demand.

Q: How do you differ from other professional organisers?

A: The process is to look at what sparks joy in your life, say goodbye to the objects that don't and be grateful for the ones you decide to keep. That, to me, is different from simply organising.

Q: What prompted you to expand from one-on-one client work to writing books and training other consultants?

A: Eventually I had a six-month waiting list for my services, and future customers were telling me they couldn't wait and asking if I would share my lessons. I had no experience or skill in writing books, so I enrolled in a six-month course on how to do it. After that, I presented a proposal to some publishers. I was surprised to see so many people respond to it outside Japan. But the book The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up was released, and we now have KonMari consultants in several countries.

Q: How did you adjust to fame?

A: The way I see it, what's famous is not me — the individual or personality — but the idea. People find the message exciting and powerful and are picking it up, and that's the value. People do recognize me as the tidy expert, of course. When I'm at a café, for example, they might see me and, without even thinking, tidy what's on the table in front of them, maybe feeling some pressure. I do think that happens in some moments, but otherwise I'm not affected by being known.

Q: How do you ensure that all your consultants are as good as you?

A: To become a KonMari consultant is not an easy task — it involves testing and monitoring and many steps. Consultants also exchange information about what is working and what isn't. That tight-knit community keeps the standards where they need to be.

Q: And how do you pick the people who work for you directly?

A: It's very important to me that their personal mission is aligned with KonMari's — meaning they have a sense of purpose, listen to their heart and lead a life that sparks joy.

Q: What have you learned about working with clients from different cultures?

A: Japanese clients and I can often understand each other without having to use many words, because we're from the same culture and island. With Western clients, it's different. I have to put more into words. I'll give you an example. In Japan when we're discarding things that don't spark joy, I ask clients to thank the item, and no one asks me why. But American clients will ask, "Why am I thanking this item that has no spark?" So I have to explain.

Marie Kondo arrives at night one of the Television Academy's 2019 Creative Arts Emmy Awards. Photo / AP

Q: How can you tell when you'll work well with a client?

A: We should see that our goals are aligned and that we can work toward them. Everyone has a slightly different vision. I also want that individual to know what items or objects spark joy and to be able to really cherish them. When challenging moments occur, the most important thing is to discuss again "What are our goals?" and "Can we realign?" It's important to always come back to why the work is worth it.

Q: What do you say to people who are just hopeless at staying organised? How do you make sure they don't slip back into bad habits?

A: First, I remind them that you can't tidy if you never learned how! Tidying is a skill. Let go of the preconception that you were born unable to tidy. Second, focus on what you want to keep, not what to discard. Finally, follow the KonMari method: Tidy up in one shot; tackle your belongings by category; and ensure you have a set place for every item you choose to keep. Clutter is caused by a failure to return things to where they belong.

Q: Have you encountered anyone who's actually happier and more productive with clutter than they are without?

A: I've never met anyone who was happier before tidying than they were after. But I have met people who are perfectly happy with their lives — and the amount of stuff in it — who don't need or want help tidying.

Q: You've been criticized for launching a product line — selling more things to clutter homes. How do you respond?

A: My message has been very consistent: Keep things that bring joy. But I've realized through my practice that many functional items tend not to do that. They fill a purpose, but they're only half satisfying. I hope what's available on my website will fix that. You can buy a product if it will satisfy the rule, you need only one and you can fully appreciate it. But of course my advice is also don't buy too much. And finish tidying up before you buy, because that gives you clarity on what you need or are missing.

Q: Tell me about tidying at work. Can organising your desk, inbox or schedule really bring you greater joy at the office? Is the approach at all different?

A: This is something you must find time to do. When your workspaces are organised, there is room for joy to come in. You still want to start by figuring out what your goals are; from there you can decide on the environment you want or the emails you read. What contributes to that ideal career path?

Q: This sometimes leads people to switch jobs or careers. Why?

A: When you repeatedly ask yourself, "Does this spark joy?" you begin to see what is meaningful to you. If that becomes a natural behavior, you apply it to everything — your home, your work and career, your relationships, even what you eat. It becomes a rhythm, and then you can see to the bottom of your heart what you want to do with your life.

Q: Is tidying something a work group should do together? Should a boss or company promote or even mandate it?

A: Tidying is always more effective when each person wants to do it for themselves. I don't think it should be mandated. Internal motivation is key. If you're annoyed by your co-workers' or team members' cluttered workspaces, tidy your own area first. In my experience, the light and energy that comes from tidying often inspires someone else.

Q: Is it ever hard to keep your calm, joyful, organised persona up?

A: I'm human too. The majority of the time, this is who I am. But when I'm overworked, feeling stressed, and my daughters are running around and making a mess, then of course I'm not as calm as I should be! That does happen once in a while.

Written by: Alison Beard
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