"For me I am quite comfortable with employing an older employee," says McBeath. "I knew what skills he could bring to the job and the age thing doesn't come in. The key thing for me is making sure [older employees] are comfortable with me."
McBeath says a mix of age results in improved performance for his teams and the organisation. "If you have a non-diverse workforce you come up with problems because you have group think going on."
Having known McBeath for many years, Roberts says he has great respect for his skills and was keen to work for him. "I didn't consider age."
Ageism and unemployment is an issue that concerns Retirement Commissioner Diane Maxwell. Whereas younger bosses and their older reports interviewed for this article have no problem with the age reversal, many employers do, says Maxwell.
Age discrimination leads to a disproportionate degree of unemployment for older workers. Research conducted by the Commission for Financial Capability in 2016 and 2017 found that the problem often lay with recruitment consultants.
"We spoke with consultants who say they didn't forward on the CVs of older workers because they were confident [the younger bosses] wouldn't want to see them."
The recruitment consultants often make these decisions off their own bat, although sometimes the client has been clear they don't want older employees, says Maxwell.
The irony she says is that organisations are looking for dynamic smart people and someone who has those attributes at age 30 will have them at 40, 50 or 60. "I don't think age defines the person."
Maxwell disagrees with the common perception that young is intrinsically better than older.
"This drives me nuts."
As workers build experience in the workforce they have more knowledge to apply than when they were younger.
"If you have a bit of maturity you have seen life and have better balance and perspective, which can be good in the workplace. Some young people are more status quo-driven, operate within the lines and don't have critical thinking skills."
She says change needs to happen through human resources departments because the commission-driven nature of recruitment means it's unlikely to happen there.
This is worse in smaller organisationsthat don't have an HR department.
Vodafone
Vodafone's qualifications and global academies lead, Anton Pienaar, has himself led teams over the years. Now at the age of 52, he reports to 33-year-old Kate Larmer, learning and development manager.
It's not the first time Pienaar has reported to a younger boss and he says he doesn't see management as gender- or age-specific and doesn't view the relationship in a hierarchical sense.
"The hierarchical approach to leadership is old school, and can be restricting," he says. "She manages the team in terms of team priorities. I think of her as a leader rather than a manager. By the age of 52, I can manage myself."
Larmer adds that their interactions are just "Anton and Kate having a conversation", not young female boss with older male employee. She sees herself as a leader but looks at what every member of the team brings to their own role. "[I] access and harness the capabilities and attributes of everyone in the team."
Three of Larmer's direct reports are older than her and, like Pienaar, she doesn't consider the relationship in terms of factors such as age, ethnicity or gender. "It is around whether they are the right person for the team and have the required capability to fulfil the role and they are going to enjoy working in this environment."
Larmer says it's important to challenge your own pre-conceptions about age. "You need to check your own biases. The assumption you make abut [others] could be completely wrong."
Spark
Rob Berrill, 38, general manager of physical infrastructure at Spark, started managing people at a previous organisation when he was 28, meaning it was inevitable that he would have older reports.
In a company with such a long history as Spark it pays to have employees who have been around since day dot. Of Berrill's nine direct reports, currently eight are older than he is.
One of those, compliance manager Ray Norton, 57, started work straight out of school at New Zealand Post at the age of 16 in 1976 and has stayed with the company through its Telecom and now Spark days.
Some younger bosses may feel threatened or reluctant to ask older employees for advice fearing it might destroy their credibility, says Norton. But as they grow in the role and become more secure they often overcome this.
Berrill adds: "For me it's all about having the diversity of skills, experience and perspective in the team. Ray brings a unique set of skills, a lot of experience and a perspective of not just being in any organisation, but having had a front-row seat as the organisation went through many changes.
"It is important to tap into that experience that is imparted within his team and across my management team and more broadly across the organisation."
Berrill says he has seen the role of a leader in business evolving. No longer does the leader need to know it all. "It's about tapping into the skills and expertise you have access to. A leader's role is to make decisions and to empower members of the team."
