“What I see a lot in business is very vertically oriented organisations where position and power mean everything.
“What I’ve found in sport is that we tended to operate more at a horizontal level where we collaborated a lot more to move up the vertical axis.
“And in the end, the position became irrelevant because it was more about the role. If you take the sports analogy, when you go onto a field in a rugby game, everyone gets a jersey and has a number on it.
“That just defines a role. Often I feel people are so in a hurry to get further up the ladder, that they forget about improving themselves.
“And I think what we did in sport, was if we can get you the best we can be, the team will win, and you will win, like it’ll be a dual outcome.”
Perhaps surprisingly, for Shand, the All Blacks’ ultimate win-loss record was not the primary metric of success.
“Well, that’s what the outside world sees,” he says. “But that’s not what we’re driven by.
“Yes, to the public, we’re an outcome-based organisation, and that’s what high-performance sport is often measured by. But, internally, we were driven by a whole lot of other things that allowed us to achieve those outcomes.”
When it comes to his own career, Shand says money has never been a primary driver.
“Like, I never actually wanted the All Blacks job. It wasn’t something that I had put on my life path. Circumstances allowed it to happen and I never was one to debate what I got paid. I just always felt, you know, pay me what we’re worth. I think I’ve only once in my whole career gone back to a CEO and gone ‘hey, I think we need to have a look at this’.”
Shand grew up in Hawke’s Bay and “we lived amongst all the orchards”.
“So pretty early on I was next door in the orchard getting paid, I don’t know, 10 cents? That was my first job putting [fruit] in those boxes and thinking if I get a hundred done today, I’ve earned 10 bucks.”
As far as spending the money goes, Shand says his major indulgences were always sporting equipment.
“I always wanted the best stuff because I felt if I looked good, I felt good, that I’d play good. It was always like, oh, I need the latest cricket pads or, you know, I need these boots for, for rugby or for hockey.”
In fact, Shand only played rugby until he was 13. He had more natural talent for hockey.
Since then he’s been more focused on solo sports. These days he’s more likely to be splashing out on bikes or skiing gear ... or surfboards.
“I’ve always been about the toys,” he says. “I’m still very passionate about biking. I do a lot of mountain biking and road cycling and still run. I can still get the old carcass around the block.”
“Skiing’s still probably my biggest passion and done a little bit of surfing in the last few years, which I’ve quite enjoyed.”
Shand talks through the unlikely career path that led him to the All Blacks.
After training in sports and physical education at Otago University, he headed to Queenstown where he worked as a white water rafting guide before joining AJ Hackett in the early days of the buggy jumping boom.
“He was the first person who really believed that I could do more, that I could lead and manage people. And so he gave me the chance. The other thing I really learned from him was the notion of risk in business.”
From there Shand went to Canterbury Rugby in the very early days of fully professional Super Rugby. He never looked back.
Listen to the full episode to hear more from Darren Shand.
Money Talks is a podcast run by the NZ Herald. It isn’t about personal finance and isn’t about economics - it’s just well-known New Zealanders talking about money and sharing some stories about the impact it’s had on their lives and how it has shaped them.
The series is hosted by Liam Dann, business editor-at-large for the Herald. He is a senior writer and columnist, and also presents and produces videos and podcasts. He joined the Herald in 2003.
Money Talks is available on iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.