Detective Senior Sergeant Greg Turner has his own concerns about the 54-year-old Tauranga courthouse. Photo / File
The Western Bay of Plenty's top detective has come out in support of lawyers concerned about the state of the Tauranga courthouse.
Detective Senior Sergeant Greg Turner, who heads investigations in the region, told the Bay of Plenty Times yesterday that the court experience in Tauranga is increasingly frustrating for local police staff.
He said police have the same concerns that lawyers do, as revealed by the Times last week.
Turner said victim feedback around their experiences in the Tauranga courthouse is also increasingly negative.
There is an area outside courtroom four in Cameron House – Tauranga's 54-year-old Criminal Court – where jurors, witnesses, defendants' supporters, and counsel are required to wait before going into court.
The external door in this area is closed as part of the building's single entry/exit security policy. It was in and around this area where a gang member was caught filming jury members and a witness, using his mobile phone, during a major drug-dealing trial last year.
Turner said for a lot of the trials police are involved in, there is a familial link between victims and offenders.
He said it is "entirely inappropriate" that victims and those members of their family, whānau are having to mix in the same small space.
"Victims and witnesses are uncomfortable, and understandably so, with their experiences.
"And it is entirely inappropriate that jurors should have to use or traverse common spaces with victims, witnesses, offenders.
"In an ideal world, there would be space to separate out various groups."
Turner said he was involved in discussions about 18 months ago that saw a room made available for victims in McLean House, the adjoining building that houses the Family and Civil courts.
"But the reality is, this is too remote from the courthouse and is too small to accommodate victims and their families, whānau."
Turner said the two interview rooms in the area outside courtroom four are also often not an option as they are regularly used by defence counsel and are too small.
Fraser Gibbs, the Ministry of Justice's general manager of commercial and property, flew in from Wellington last week to show the Bay of Plenty Times around the Tauranga court precinct and to answer questions about the issues and concerns raised by members of the local legal community.
The upshot of the visit was this: There are several courthouses around the country that need upgrades and redevelopment, the proposed Tauranga courthouse redevelopment has not even reached the concept and design phase, and "if you're doing a major redevelopment from concept to completion it's a minimum of four years".
And then there is the money needed for that process to begin. Or, rather, the lack of it.
The Ministry of Justice put in an overall cost pressure bid ahead of Budget 2019, which included money for property, but that bid was unsuccessful.
Gibbs said he could not disclose how much money the Ministry asked for.
"We hope we're successful but obviously the Government will determine its priorities."
During the visit, Gibbs said he was aware of the concerns raised by lawyers about the open area outside courtroom four in Cameron House.
Gibbs said the area was under monitored CCTV surveillance. Asked, then, why security did not pick up on the gang member filming that day, he mentioned the difficulties of new technology and the number of cameras/images that need monitoring at any one time.
He said security can review images and then investigate what has happened.
"People can film very, very discreetly and it is an issue. So we are aware of issues, we will obviously continue with our court security team to review our processes."
However, in the case of the gang member caught filming last year, it was far from discreet.
The sentencing notes said the filming was noticed by a detective in the area more than once and that it was also noticed by a number of members of the jury panel.
In fact, it was noted: "He made no attempt to hide the fact that he was filming them..."
Tauranga's Crown Solicitor Anna Pollett said this week: "This area requires attention to avoid the common cross-over between jurors, witnesses, defendants' supporters, and counsel. The monitoring of cameras captures what is occurring, or has occurred, in the area during or after the fact rather than preventing it."
Gibbs said the external doors around the building that were closed as part of the single entry/exit policy were still fire escapes and could be used in the case of an emergency.
He said security and access requirements had changed a lot since Cameron House was designed and built, and events such as the Ashburton Work and Income shooting and, more recently, the Christchurch mosque shootings, meant courthouses and other Government buildings around the country had introduced new safety measures – like screening for everyone and a single entry/exit.
Gibbs said court cases are looked at by security in advance and risk assessments and plans are made daily, working with other parties such as the police.
"Wherever we can, we will manage those types of issues. They are often tense environments and that's why ... we've recently increased our court security significantly."
He could not provide specific local numbers to show how that was the case in Tauranga, but said the Government in the last Budget had approved continued funding (of about $8 million) for court security nationwide, and that in the two years before that there had been an increase in court security guards around the country, "an extra 100-odd".
"We take the security of everybody that comes into the court extremely seriously, both from a health and safety perspective of our people at work and the court's judiciary, lawyers, stakeholders, whoever it may be, we are always looking to say, 'how can we provide the most secure environment for them?'"
Detective Senior Sergeant Turner's concerns about the lack of separate spaces for victims, witnesses, and jurors follow comments made by Pollett last week about the courthouse not having adequate facilities to support complainants and vulnerable witnesses giving evidence, or adequate areas for lawyers to meet their clients.
In response to those concerns, Gibbs said there are interview rooms for lawyers to talk to their clients in private in Cameron House and separate interview rooms in the Family Court area in McLean House.
He said lawyers have their own secure space in Cameron House to work in and can also use the Crown library in McLean House. He also said there is an area for protected/vulnerable witnesses in McLean House, and another area for Crown witnesses in Cameron House.
Gibbs said court designs and needs had changed over the years and that any new redevelopment and building design in Tauranga would incorporate that.
"A lot of courts 50 years ago didn't have vulnerable witness spaces."
A courthouse staff member who accompanied Gibbs on the tour said if lawyers needed more rooms they could ask for them and they would be cordoned off.
She said sometimes when there are too many witnesses in a trial in Cameron House, the protected/vulnerable witness room in McLean House is used.
"If Crown has their witnesses over here [McLean House], then that would create a delay, if they had their witnesses over in Cameron House waiting, then there's no delay."
That is because there is no link between the two buildings and the only way back into Cameron House is via the main entrance and security.
"So if the Crown [solicitors] have got them over here [McLean House] for whatever reason they've chosen to, that would create a delay," the court staff member said.
Asked if the room for Crown witnesses in Cameron House was possibly too small, she said: "You only have so many witnesses called at a time."
Gibbs said it was all "a managed process".
Gibbs would not be drawn on where Tauranga ranked on the Ministry's "quite extensive" courthouse priority list.
He listed seven different courthouses – Whanganui, Hamilton, Waitakere, Tauranga, Rotorua, Manukau and Hutt Valley – that all needed work done and said there were also others.
Gibbs said Hutt Valley was probably number one "at this point" and Tauranga and Rotorua were "in the top list".
He said money had been put aside for planning works in Rotorua, that some designs had already been done there and were now being costed.
Tauranga had not reached the concept design stage yet.
It was a complex process with changing and competing demands, Gibbs said, and there is a Budget process they will work through.
Altogether, $46 million was budgeted this financial year for Ministry property around the country.
That is for critical infrastructure upgrades (lifts, air conditioning, fire systems), fit-outs for leasing new facilities, furniture replacement, minor projects like dock upgrades and other such things.
Gibbs said he could not give a figure for the amount of money set aside for the Tauranga courthouse specifically.
He said the Ministry was always happy to talk with court users about concerns they have.
"And the key thing is, rather than dealing with individual people we would like representation either through Crown solicitors, Crown Law, or through the Law Society, and then we are more than happy to see what we can do to accommodate people.
"Often, we're not asked. A lot of it is anecdotal ..."
Pollett said: "All stakeholders have raised these issues, with facts, at the monthly Local Justice Sector Network meetings for a long time without responses.
"What I have been heartened by recently is an agreement from the court manager to meet with us all to discuss issues like how we get witnesses from McLean House to Cameron House to give their evidence without having to come via the public entrance."
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