When Horizons took over bus travel in Whanganui in 1991 there were 430,000 passengers a year, Tonnon said. There are now six buses running and passengers have decreased to 120,000 a year.
Councillor Hadleigh Reid was appalled by that.
"I find it funny, because it's just so bad," he said.
Horizons has just one planner and fewer than six staff across its transport function. They have a potential two days a week in Whanganui.
Meanwhile, in Palmerston North, bus use is increasing.
Whanganui bus users are the people who were aboard in the 1970s and 1980s, Tonnon said. It is essential to get a new group of riders.
A few extra trips were added to Whanganui timetables in December last year, but he said they were barely advertised.
"Today we still don't have what I would consider Day 1 advertising like in a city like Auckland."
Whanganui bus services work on "a coverage system", where routes are varied to take them through every part of town. It makes timetables complicated and confusing and services less frequent.
"It assumes the people who take buses put a low value on their time. You might have to wait two hours to take a bus to town."
Queenstown has increased ridership from 600,000 to 1.3 million in two years, he said. It has just four routes, and buses run at 15-minute intervals until 11pm.
Asked how our system could be improved, Tonnon said relying on Horizons or Whanganui District Council to make changes would be slow, with reports needed before funding was granted.
He said private operators like bus owner Neville Gorrie could add services for tourists that residents would also use. That would be a "tactical urbanism" approach.
"If you want to try something, just start."
He said resourcing could be a problem for Horizons, and its transport team worked hard and earnestly. The team's reaction to Covid-19 was swift and impressive, he said.
Whanganui bus travel will continue to be free until the Bee Card ticket system is reinstated on July 20. After that fares will decrease to tempt people aboard, and users will still be able to top up their Bee Cards on the buses.
Whanganui was built for public transport by bus and bike, Mayor Hamish McDouall said. He, Tonnon and council chief executive Kym Fell plan to meet with Horizons and talk about how to make improvements.