Toby Jones has played both ordinary blokes, like Lance in The Detectorists, and extraordinary real-life characters such as Truman Capote, Alfred Hitchcock, Karl Rove, and various figures in British history, winning several awards. In Mr Bates vs the Post Office, he’s got to do a bit of both.
When Jones took on the role of Alan Bates, the former subpostermaster wasn’t exactly a household name, but Jones and the TV series have helped make him one. More than 10 million viewers watched the series finale on the UK’s ITV, with the preceding episodes averaging more than nine million – the sort of numbers the channel got for Broadchurch and Downton Abbey. The show caused a public outcry in the UK.
The drama follows Bates as he led a two-decade campaign against the Post Office, after the Crown-owned entity accused hundreds of its “subpostmaster” franchisees of embezzlement, while denying the supposed losses were caused by bugs in its Horizon network system. Some of them served jail time, others were bankrupted by PO demands to pay back tens of thousands of pounds, and some took their own lives.
Bates, who refused to accept his seaside Welsh village franchise’s discrepancies and blamed Horizon, was forced out of his branch. He took up the cudgels for subpostmasters driven to despair by the supposedly homely British corporation – one that had the ability to prosecute its own cases while trumpeting the infallibility of its IT system.
Like many in Britain, Jones had scant knowledge of the Post Office scandal before he took on the role, despite its many years in and out of the courts and investigative journalism coverage. But after talking with the producers – with whom he had earlier made the Bafta-winning telemovie Marvellous – and writer Gwyneth Hughes, he signed on to do what he describes as “an urgent piece of drama”.
What contact did you have with the real Alan Bates?
One of the brilliant features of this story is that it has characters from the whole of the United Kingdom; one of the pleasures of it will be recognising how multicultural and how diverse the population of subpostmasters is. I wanted to represent Alan properly in that context.
I’m not playing Alan Bates. I’m playing Gwyneth Hughes’ version of Alan Bates. I had said to Alan, “I’m not going to imitate you, but I need to be you enough to differentiate you, to show where you’re from and to root you in a specific context.” This was because Alan isn’t metropolitan like me, or from the south. He’s originally from Liverpool and has been living in Wales for some time. So, I talked to him about his roots, his work, the main events of his life, his routines. Secretly, I was trying to work out what drove him on, but he’s remarkably adept at obfuscating, at not giving any clues as to how he has come to do what he’s done. It’s a genuine humility that he has and there is something mysterious about that in this day and age.
What do you think made him lead the fight?
It’s such a ridiculous thing to say, but I think he’s unusual. By which I mean, I think he presents as a very practical man in very regular clothing, but he has a fine, fine mind. I spoke on the phone to James Arbuthnot [the former MP for North East Hampshire who played a pivotal role in helping the subpostmasters] about Alan.
James was very clear it has always been a privilege to talk to Alan Bates. He looked forward to Alan getting in touch with him on every occasion because he knew he would learn something, and no time would be wasted. For all of the appalling injustice and the terrible, ongoing struggle that ordinary people have been thrown into lasting a number of years, a crisis throws up opportunities for heroism. Alan Bates is a proper hero.
What did you know about the Post Office scandal beforehand?
In among all the news we hear daily, it felt like this particular scandal had been hiding in plain sight. I was aware that, on occasion, I would hear “postmasters” mentioned and – truly, there is no other explanation for it – to my shame, I hadn’t understood the full severity of the story. I can only assume it’s partly because when you hear “Post Office”, you take for granted what this institution does. There is a scene in this particular drama where there is effectively a bank robbery. I remember reading that particular scene and thinking, “Of course!”
In these communities, there’s a lot of money in these deliberately inconspicuous buildings that have been there for my whole life, run by people who are often deliberately inconspicuous as well. They don’t draw attention to themselves and, as a result, they are truly, completely trustworthy people.
It is shocking just how appalling this scandal is. When people watch the drama, if we have done our job, it will make them see a senselessness and vindictiveness to this scandal that makes you wonder how on Earth it isn’t being spoken about more.
What is a drama like this looking to achieve?
Alan is still trying to get compensation for families who have suffered huge stress and ongoing mental health issues. People say there are around 700 subpostmasters, but actually there are 1000, if you include Scotland and Northern Ireland, and there’s this ongoing question of how long it has taken. It’s still waiting to be solved. The compensation scheme is supposed to close in August, so whatever happens, action must take place now. We have to encourage fearful subpostmasters who were wrongly convicted to come out of hiding and to claim their compensation. This drama is, to a certain extent, a kind of siren to a lot of people who are terrified to declare themselves. It is also a warning to people who take for granted their safety in what we take to be venerable institutions, but actually they’ve delayed undeniable claims for compensation and restitution.
One of the reasons I think Alan is so modest is that he hasn’t achieved what he set out to achieve yet, as I think he makes clear in the drama.
So, what’s the point of this drama?
At the moment, it’s to bring this back onto the agenda quickly. Subpostmasters and their families are traumatised and terrified and they need to come out and make their voices heard. And also, we as audiences and participants need to put pressure on the Post Office via our MPs to make sure this gets sorted once and for all. It has taken so long to get this far, but there is still some way to go.
And on a cultural level?
On a cultural front, you make drama like this because it’s about people’s relationship with their community. Often, people feel isolated or are atomised: here is a story about people coming together. The oldest Greek dramas are about a chorus uniting behind a cause, and a hero emerging from among them and taking on forces that appear to be far stronger and more anonymous and immutable.And yet the hero wins. So, in a way, this is an ancient story, and it’s a very uplifting story. l
Mr Bates vs the Post Office is screening on Easter Sunday and Monday at 8.35pm and 8.30pm on TVNZ 1 and streaming on TVNZ+. Mr Bates vs the Post Office: The Real Story screens on TVNZ 1, Sunday, April 7, at 8.30pm.
