For former Northland, Wellington and Hurricanes first five David Holwell, his old playing pal Jerry Collins was "probably one of the hardest men" he ever played with.
Therefore it's no surprise that learning of Collins' recent death - and that of Collins' partner Alana Madill - is one of the hardest things Holwell has had to tackle in a fair while.
"It was a very numb feeling to be honest, having played alongside him," Holwell said when he heard the news Collins had passed away.
Born in Apia, Samoa, in November 1980, Jerry "The Terminator" Collins played for the Norths club in Wellington before making his provincial debut for Wellington in 1999, his Super Rugby debut with the Hurricanes in 2001 and his All Blacks debut later that year.
Playing alongside the 48-test cap All Black in numerous appearances for Wellington and the Hurricanes Super Rugby team, Holwell said the bustling No8 was often transfixed by the limelight and instead opted to stay under the radar.