It appears that many of Hawke's Bay's mayors and councillors are absolutely convinced it is quite acceptable for them to exclude the public from certain discussions in council and committee meetings.
The Insight section in Saturday's Hawke's Bay Today Weekend featured this issue and our mayors had some very interesting things to say.
They cited all sorts of reasons why publicly excluded sessions were important - commercial sensitivities, privacy, strategic advantage, staff reasons and quotes.
It all sounds quite reasonable and I have no doubt our mayors and councillors believe they are doing what they were elected to do.
However, I reckon most ratepayers disagree.